Johnny Castle began his musical career in the early 60s as a drummer. (Hold off on the drummer jokes for a minute, ok?) In 1966, he switched to bass and, by the time he arrived on the Washington, DC music scene, was already a strong player. Shortly after arriving in DC, Johnny helped form Crank, a power trio in the finest tradition. The band quickly gained a strong following and opened shows for Jimi Hendrix, the Bryds, Allman Brothers and many more. During the ensuing decades, Castle has played with numerous legendary musicians, including Sreamin' Jay Hawkins, John Lee Hooker, Elvin Bishop and more. For more than a decade, he was the pulse behind Washington Area Music Hall of Famers Bill Kirchen and Too Much Fun. (For those that don't know, Bill played the guitar on Commander Cody's hit, "Hot Rod Lincoln".) The group was nominated for a Grammy in 2002 and played all over the world to an army of fans. When Kirchen relocated to Austin, TX, in 2004, Johnny elected to remain in DC where he'd lived during most of his career. Long-time pals - and also WAMA Hall of Famers, by the way - The Nighthawks called on Johnny to lay the foundation behind their hard-driving mix of Blues, R&B, Rockabilly and, according to Johnny, "straight-ahead, white-boy" Rock.

Recently returned from yet another successful European tour with the Nighthawks, Johnny sat down to talk with me via email and phone. We've known each other a long time, and it was good to sit down with Johnny and hear his take on the state of bass.

Eden: What are your current basses and what do you use them for?

JC: I have a P-Bass copy (built by Tex Rubinowitz in '79) I use it for overseas touring, open mics, and use it as my "leave in the van so I can ride my Harley to the gig" bass. I also have two '59 P-Basses: one with the Mary Kay finish, the other Sunburst. I use the MK one for most of my live gigs with the Nighthawks and Bill Kirchen. The other '59er stays home for my bass students to play.

I also have a '53 P-Bass I use when I play with the Thrillbilly's, or when I really feel like going retro. I also have a Music man Stingray 5 string, I like to record with, and two double basses.

Eden: Do you use any effects?

JC: Nah, the bands I play with are so roots-oriented it wouldn't be appropriate. Maybe a little chorusing on a solo or section, but, no, not really. I do own some, a Valve 800, and an old Boss chorus pedal and a Phase Shifter.

Eden: What strings do you use?

JC: I use anything. I used to use Rotosounds, but the bands I have been in for the last 14 years require a more traditional sound. I've been using GHS, and Smith strings. I'd like to try some of those Gore-Tex treated strings I heard about in Germany, because I play a lot of outdoor Festivals in the Summer, and the heat, sweat and humidity just kills strings.

Eden: So, are you using flatwounds to get a more traditional sound?

JC: Flats are too dead for me. I need more sustain, so I use rounds. I also funk-slap a teeny bit, and that doesn't work on flats. I adore the Rotos sound, but it's too "rawk" for my traditional thang!

Eden: What's your current rig?

JC: My main rig is a Traveler 550 into a 2x15. I also have a Time Traveler 400 that I use into a 2x10. I'm also seriously considering an Eden 4X10 cabinet, but haven't decided which one yet.

[Side note: During our final conversation for this interview, Johnny and I talked about cabinet choices for him, and it looks as if he's going to go with a 210XST, with the possibility of adding another one if he needs it.]

Eden: Why do you use Eden?

JC: They're totally dependable! I've had the Time Traveler in all manner of gigs and rooms, and it has never let me down. They sound fat and warm - which I love, being sort of old-fashioned, and not playing much funk-snappin'. They are also very manageable as far as transporting them. Compact and light, even in a road case.

Eden: You're a new Eden endorser. Why did you switch to Eden?

JC: All the reasons I just mentioned, plus when I was looking for a new head, I tried a number of amps and Eden flat- out sounded better than the rest! Guys are always comin' up to me and saying " Gawd, yer bass sounds great, what amp is that?"

Eden: Do you use your rig in the studio.? If so, what settings?

JC: I used the Time Traveler as a direct box on the Twangbangers CD, "28 Days On The Road"; as well as the Bill Kirchen CD, "Dieselbilly Roadtrip". The most recent works I'm on (The Nighthawks, The Thrillbillys) are both live recordings, but yep, that's Eden I'm playin' thru! The settings are the same live, with the boost button off.

Eden: What are your amp settings live?

JC: Bass at 2:00, low mids at 1 or 2, high mids at 12 or 1:00, highs at 10:00. On the midrange EQ I have the lower freq at 11:00 the middle at 10 and the highs hardly at all, maybe 8 or 9:00. On the Traveler I use the bottom boost button. It sounds big!

Eden: What made you decide to play bass?

JC: I fell into Bass as a bored drummer and failed guitarist. There was an immediate affinity, and spiritual connection to the bass. I also came in at a time when there were some great things going on in bass, with McCartney, Wyman, Entwhistle, and too many others to mention. Later, Stanley Clark, Verdine White, Bootsey, y'know there was a lot going on, and we're still talkin' about the 70's! I also loved guys in different genres, like Jr. Huskey in Bluegrass& Country, Ron Carter in Jazz, stuff like that.

Eden: Tell us a little about the early days.

JC: My first band, (I played drums and was 14) was the Galaxies in Gila Bend, AZ. We played Teen Dances, Proms, even the occasional bar! We played instrumentals, like the Ventures, and a lot of bands in those days. Nobody had a PA, so we had to play instrumentals! When the Beatles arrived, I started listening more to the bass, but still thought I should be a guitarist. The first time I picked up a bass, I could play it, with fingers, and seemed to know what to do with it already. Like I said, that spiritual connection.

Eden: Are you self-taught?

JC: Pretty much. And that means I had to go back and re-teach myself a couple of times. I saw a poster of Cream in '68 and thought "oh, you use your little finger, too? Start over." After a few of those, I decided to do it right and took lessons on Classical Double Bass, bowing, reading music. . .skills that have long since diminished, atrophied or disappeared all together! Ha! Use it or lose it, y'all! Actually, one project this winter is to try and knock the rust off some of this stuff. A bowed bass is a beautiful sound, but not by me, at this time. <laughs>

Eden: I imagine that you learned a lot from records. Am I right?

JC: Oh yeah. I learned a lot by listening and figuring things out. In the beginning, I didn't even know who the players were. I think the first time I even saw a picture of an instrument on a record was a Beach Boys record. Brian Wilson was holding a bass, and I thought it looked supremely cool.

Eden: What's your philosophy of bass? Your attitude?

JC: Well, I think they're two different things. I mean, my attitude is to get our there, please the people, give them a total show. Now, with this old body, I don't jump around like I did in my younger days. <laughs> I'm a grandfather, after all. But I still move a lot to the music and have fun. And I like to give the audience something to look at while they're listening.

As for my philosophy of bass, to me, support is #1! If you can't support the band's grooves, the singer's vocals, the soloist's solos, you have no business being up there. Check out Handel or Bach's bass lines, They are great - active and yet still supportive. Nothing's changed in 350 years. Once support is established, you can blow minds! The sky is the limit.

Eden: Has your playing changed over the years?

JC: Oh, yeah! <laughs> I used to overplay like all the big guys back then. I don't want to name names, but you know who I mean. But now, I look back at all that and go nah, nah, nah. . . Now, I like the real fat, sparse stuff - Duck Dunn, that kind of thing.

There's a beauty to all that "meat and potatoes". When you overplay, it's contrary to what the song wants. It's OK to experiment with making the line individual, but you have to stay within the boundaries of the genre. Don't play first base with third base technique, in other words.

Eden: What's your favorite style to play and why?

JC: I'm just glad someone still wants me to be up there. <laughs> I prefer the rootsy stuff. That leaves room for a lot of genres! I love it all!

Eden: What do you mean by rootsy? Let's explore those genres.

JC: I think it's the fact that almost anyone can get in on it…somebody in every room can groove to rootsy stuff…be it bluegrass or cajun, blues, whatever. Everyone gets it. It's down there where the soul is. That's why I like it.

Eden: How do you approach your role as a bassist? Is it different when you're playing n a three-piece band and larger units?

You have to carry more of a load, but not by over- playing in a 3 piece. It has to be more muscular. The more instruments you add, the less load you share, and you can get away with more, in some ways.

Eden: What are the differences and similarities (in terms of bass and your approach) between the various styles of music you play?

JC: No matter if it's funk or Bluegrass, I "heavy up" the one. Folks seem to like it, and the players always know where the one is when I'm up there. I tend to play pretty straight a lot of the time, whether it's a Texas Swing, a two-beat, shuffle, even straight Rock and Roll. First I'll find the type of bass line that's appropriate for the song, then I'll beat it to death. Like I said before, you can make the line your own, but first you have to establish what the line is. Then you can add the interesting turn-arounds and fills that make it your line and no one else's. That's where your personality comes into play. I like looking for the little things to spice up a line. Personally, I think doing the same thing over and over is pretty boring. It's a fine line sometimes, but that's what makes it so challenging.

Eden: How about the "other times", the times when you don't play straight?

JC: Well, with most of the bands I've worked with, and especially the bands I've worked with the past decade, there's still lost of room to move. For example, with Bill Kirchen, we used to do Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited. We changed it up a bit, played it with a real John Lee Hooker groove, the feel ZZ Top used for La Grange. Then we'd go way out during the solos. It was just ridiculous how far over the edge we'd take it.

Now, during something like that, sure, I'm all over the place. It's times like that when that early overplaying can come in handy. <laughs> Except I'm much more focused now on what I play and why I play it. You have to know why you're going to play something, not just throw a lot of notes out.

One of the things I've learned is that, when you aren't blowing your wad all the time, then the times you do, it sounds incredible. People really get into it because it's something special, not just an all-night Wank Fest. A lot of my students are impressed by the fast and flashy guys. But if you go to a concert by one of those guys, you aren't going to see many girls there, no dancing, you know what I mean. Personally, I like being able to reach a wider audience with what I do.

The other thing you have to remember is that the band needs to all be on the same page. You can't approach a song from a really heavy perspective if the other guys are coming from a traditional mindset. You've all got to be headed in the same direction. That's where good ears come in; you have to listen to what the other musicians are doing and craft your lines so that they support those other players rather than getting in the way and messing things up. Again, it's all about what to play and why.

Eden: You've played with a wide variety of artists. Tell us about some of your favorites to work with.

JC: Mac Wiseman, "the voice with a heart" (Bluegrass). He always had a twinkle in his eye. You felt that, even if you screwed up, it was ok.

Tex Rubinowitz & The Bad Boys. We were wild and really ROCKED! Root Boy Slim: Never a dull moment w/ Slim.

Screamin' J Hawkins, John Lee Hooker, legends who were really sweet guys, not at all like their notorieties. The Twangbangers: Bill Kirchen AND Redd Volkaert? What's not to like?

Joe Maphis, Great picker, great man, nice as he could be. There's more, like Eddie Angel of Los Straightjackets, and Steuart Smith of the Eagles. Both played in Swithchblade with me. Stu is the finest musician I have ever had the pleasure to play with.

Eden: How about the Nighthawks?

JC: The Nighthawks are extremely hard working. They (Mark Wenner & Pete Ragusa) have been at it together for some 30 + years so they are entrenched in some routines, like driving home after the last gig no matter where we are. <laughs>

People think we're a Blues band, 'cos we do play the heck outta the Blues, but we're so much more. We do steaming Rockabilly, soulful R&B, even some burnin' straight-up white-boy Rock. The downside to the busy schedule is the lack of time to get new or original material worked up. We have maybe 2 rehearsal periods a year. Paul Bell (guitar) and I had to learn 80 tunes, mostly onstage, when we joined the band 2 years ago. That was a challenge.

Eden: How is your own band, The Thrillbillys, different from the Nighthawks? JC: The Thrillbillys are made up of 4 players who are all in another band or two. We learn songs either on the spot, on stage, or we hand out CDs to learn from and try them out on stage. The loosey- goosey thing seems to be part of the appeal. Robbie Magruder (the drummer) is as old a vet as I am. He's played with Roy Buchanan, Mary Chapin Carpenter, many more. We've played in some other bands together, and we lock in pretty quick. Most people are amazed or don't realize we are playing songs we don't know or never rehearsed. It's tremendous fun, and I look forward to it every week. Eden: You're blessed, then, to play with two great drummers. I mean, Pete Ragusa! They don't come any better, do they? JC: No, they sure don't. Pete's been one of my best friends for something like twenty years. We've always hung out when we're both in town, watching Monday Night Football, whatever. So it's WAY cool to be playing in a band together; we're hanging out even more, and we're getting paid to do it. <laughs>

As for his drumming, you know you're playing with a drummer when you share the stage with Pete. He's just phenomenal, as a long list of greats will tell you: Muddy Waters, Pinetop Perkins, on and on. Everybody he's ever worked with will tell you he's great. The cool thing about Pete is, he's always THERE, never taking a nap. Always pushing it along, always playing the perfect fill at the perfect time.

What's really cool is that his fills aren't just great, sometimes they can be totally humorous, which cracks me up. He'll throw in this totally appropriate fill, but it will also be funny as all get-out. I look back at him and he's got this "possum eatin' cactus" grin on his face.

Pete's also got great ears, which is why so many people call him for studio work. He's always paying attention, really listens to what everyone else is doing and then provides the perfect support for that - knows where to groove, knows where to put a fill, and why. And everything he plays just oozes total authority. <laughs> I call him The Enforcer. "The downbeat goes HERE! We're going to push it just a little right HERE." It's great because it really makes the music come alive.

And his dynamics! You know; you've played with him. So you know how big and fat that bass drum of his sounds. It's huge! And I have to compete with that. In fact, that's why I went with the 215XLT! I love his bass drum, and wanted a bottom end that would hold up to that, and compliment it. The new cabinet does that perfectly. We've got a great, deep low end sound to the 'Hawks.

Eden: Have you got any new CDs coming out?

JC: The Nighthawks have a new CD and DVD coming out this year. They're both from live recordings at the Barns at Wolf Trap. The Thrillbillys also have a live CD out this year, recorded at the Sunset Grille, Annandale, VA, where we hold forth most Thursdays.

Eden: Ah…the Sunset Grille. If still blows me away that such a small bar hosts such well-known and popular acts. You played there for a long time with Bill Kirchen, and now with the Thrillbillys. How is that different than doing the larger shows?

JC: It's different in that you know the audience by their first name. <laughs> Seriously, it's more intimate, and you can get away with trying new stuff or throwing it over the edge and see if you can get it back. If you don't, the small crowd will appreciate the effort and attempt whereas a large crowd would probably say "what the hell are they doing?"

Eden: Do you do much studio work? How do you approach a session?

JC: I still do a little studio work for other clients. I'm on the road a lot, however, so I don't do as much as I'd like. I approach the sessions with a "throw what you know out" mentality. I try to play what the song wants me to play, not what my ego wants. It's important to always have an open mind and ear to suggestions.

Eden: You tour a LOT. Describe an "average day" on the road.

JC: First you get in the van, drive for x number of hours. If you have time, hit the Motel; if not, straight to gig and sound check. Maybe there's time to eat. Wait around to play. After the show, load up as fast as possible, head back to room or, in extreme cases, on to next gig. Repeat process.

It's great to get out and see our great country (and others), but it's hard to stay healthy, eat right, get enough sleep, etc. It's a young man's game and I'm 56, but you know what? It beats working! In Europe, our agency sends us out with a tour manager who drives, translates and takes care of everything. Almost relaxing!

Eden: You're currently working with at least two bands - Nighthawks and your own band. How do you juggle that? Do you ever have to get a sub for one of your main acts? If so, how does that work?

JC: All bands, including my own, must defer to my 'Hawks schedule. It's the only way it works. Once in a while, yes, a sub is needed, but it's rare. If I ain't here, we don't do it generally.

Eden: Do you have any learning tips for young players? What should they practice and why?

JC: In all honesty, this I an area that most guys don't get into as much as I'd like. Scales are the words in the musical language we speak. You just gotta know 'em. Also arpeggios. You can fake any song by working within the triads.

Eden: What's your approach to teaching?

JC: I don't claim to teach; I tell my students I'm their coach! They teach themselves, I just direct it. If they never practice or learn what they should on their own, then they'll pay me to do it here under my watch. I never talk down to my students. After all, they're fellow bass players! I just have a little more experience, but I never assume one can't learn from students. I learn as much from them as they do from me.

Eden: You obviously working a great deal. Do you still take time for personal practice? If so, describe what you do. If not, why not?

JC: I play through my scales to warm up, but no, I don't practice. I'm on the bass so much during a given week, and I have the twinges of early arthritis, so it kind of hurts to play. Also, you need to clear out the brain sometimes. I play tennis, ski, Motorcycle, Jet ski, I have other interests, too.

Eden: Do you have any advice for players wanting to move up to national level touring/recording?

JC: It's not just how good you are, it's who you know. Get over yourself and get to know other players. Network. That's the key. You aren't going to hire yourself! Don't turn your nose up at anything. Keep an open mind and try to be able to play in as many genres as you can stand. Also try to develop any songwriting skills you have - that's where the money is. Also, don't noodle or tune out loud. Use a tuner and practice at home. The first sounds an audience should hear are the band playing the first tune, not you warming up or searching for that elusive A-440. Also, never leave your wallet or passport in the dressing room. Keep 'em on you or in sight, on stage.

Eden: What does the future hold for you?

JC: The same as for the rest of us. . .Death and Destruction! But aside from that, I have no idea. I'll keep beatin' on the bass and teaching 'til it's time to stop.

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